Static Zombie

Because of the way you phrased it, "The expectation is that everyone's paying for their own meal.", I say:

1) a
2) a

However, if there has been discussion of various different eating places beforehand, you have volunteered the information that you have the coupon and you have steered the choice of eating place towards Restaurant X to use the coupon, it would seem considerably more charitable to use the coupon to benefit the group rather than yourself, and the answers become

1) b
2) b
2') still b - for $10, I'd suck it up; for $20, I'd bitch and moan a bit.

Someone who steered the group restaurant choice to a particular restaurant primarily to use a coupon and doesn't share the savings gained thereby is not quite nice, but taking advantage of a coupon for yourself if you all were going to go to that restaurant whether you had that coupon or not is perfectly OK.

Now I wonder whether I have broken my own etiquette guideline suggestion somewhere along the line. Probably! :-)

... sigh ...

You cheap, cheap bastard.

It really should have been discussed beforehand to avoid confusion. "Hey, I've got a coupon for $X that I'll be using towards my meal." Then there wouldn't be anything to worry about.

Offer to split the cost equally in the bill. This is when your group says something like "And we'll cover the tip as a thank you."

Thank you, Dave. I read your answer and did a spit-take. I now have coffee on my keyboard.

The answer is c), c): In both cases, you do b), do not consider a), and if anyone else brings it up you wave it off.*

* If you are not currently financially comfortable, you may consider a) but I'd still say the benefits of being generous outweigh the $20 in savings. If it bothers you that much, use the coupon with a different group or by yourself.

Dave: I believe I've already come clean about that.

So why not go all the way and pick up the entire dinner tab? Where do you draw the line? Why are you "cheap" for applying a $20 gift certificate towards yourself and not the group, but not "cheap" for applying a $20 bill towards yourself in the same circumstances? Why does the form of payment change the group's sense of entitlement?

If you buy a bunch of gift certificates at the start of the meal, then use one to pay for your portion, is that still a social gaffe? If not, how is that any different from the case where you got the gift certificate at some other time?

You have used two different words, "coupon" and "gift certificate". If indeed it is a coupon which you received in the mail or cut from the newspaper, then the proper thing to do would be to throw it in the middle and everyone gets the benefit to reduce their portion of the bill.

If on the other hand, it was a gift certificate that you received, this is, in effect, money to you, as opposed to a "coupon" which is usually associated with a promotion of some kind.

A gift certificate for $20 is tatamount to a $20 bill. Add $5 and you've paid your share.

I don't see the difference. They're both, in effect, money to me. They're both slips of paper which can be redeemed in lieu of spending cash. How is my method of obtaining them relevant?

The topic came up as a result of my discovery of a promotion at Restaurant.com, a web site that sells "dining certificates" for less than face value-- $25 certificates for $10, 50% off for $6, etc. There's currently a deal going on where if you enter "93935" as a coupon code on the front page, you get 60% off-- so that $25 certificate is now just $4. Too good to pass up, so I got some for a few local restaurants. Most require parties of 4 or more, so I started wondering about the social implications of using them.

The chance of 4 of my friends all ordering the same thing is about nill. Lets change the situation to the price of everyones meal was in a $4 dollar range. Would:

x) each person figure out how much he owed so 1 person might pay $23 and another $27. Or

y) each person still kicks in $25.

If the answer is x) then this is very similar to getting seperate checks. I would say that a) is acceptable.

If the answer is y) and if it is a coupon and not a gift certificate, I would say b) is the expected behavior.

"...Most require parties of 4 or more..."

I think this answer the question of what is the difference between a coupon and a gift certificate.

If I have a coupon (clipped from the paper) for 2 meals for the price of one, do I:

f) get my meal for free
g) me and 1 other friend pay 1/2 price
h) I pay 1/2 price the other 3 get 1/6 off
i) everyone gets 1/4 off

I can't use my coupon without another person, so shouldn't they receive some of the benefit?

Now if you paid for a coupon that complicates things.

(I know, in a purely economic world, the source of money doesn't matter. But in the social world it does. Scrooge lived in a purely economic world.)

Socially,"manner-wise", any type of coupon is taboo, especially at a nice restaurant. But if you have friends like me and my friends, they'll be clamoring for the coupons themselves.

However ethics is more interesting than mere manners. If the coupon requires other people, it's ethically correct to tell them about it and ask them if you can "use them" to cash in your investment (you may put it less bluntly, of course).

* I like Eric's "Scrooge" line.

If they want in on it, they should pay part of your $4-$6 investment (or whatever it would be).

If no other people are required to use it, of course it's fine to use it for yourself only.

Now, for my confession of a past error, I did just what you suggest with a normal coupon for pizza. I was flat broke at a gaming convention (DragonCon) about 10 years ago and subtly hinted at Papa John's pizza. Without mentioning the coupon, I collected everyone's share of the money and gave the driver my coupon as my share (plus everyone's tip they'd thrown in) without any of my friends knowing about it as I recall. If I had to do this over again, I hope I'd do it correctly, but I was pretty hungry and had a full day to go before heading home. (It was the year after Magic:The Gathering was released and I spent my entire wallet in the dealer's room in the first 20 minutes of the con.) I guess hunger trumps a rule every now & then, but I think nowadays I'd do it differently.

Socially,"manner-wise", any type of coupon is taboo, especially at a nice restaurant. But if you have friends like me and my friends, they'll be clamoring for the coupons themselves.

However ethics is more interesting than mere manners. If the coupon requires other people, it's ethically correct to tell them about it and ask them if you can "use them" to cash in your investment (you may put it less bluntly, of course).

* I like Eric's "Scrooge" line.

If they want in on it, they should pay part of your $4-$6 investment (or whatever it would be).

If no other people are required to use it, of course it's fine to use it for yourself only.

Now, for my confession of a past error, I did just what you suggest with a normal coupon for pizza. I was flat broke at a gaming convention (DragonCon) about 10 years ago and subtly hinted at Papa John's pizza. Without mentioning the coupon, I collected everyone's share of the money and gave the driver my coupon as my share (plus everyone's tip they'd thrown in) without any of my friends knowing about it as I recall. If I had to do this over again, I hope I'd do it correctly, but I was pretty hungry and had a full day to go before heading home. (It was the year after Magic:The Gathering was released and I spent my entire wallet in the dealer's room in the first 20 minutes of the con.) I guess hunger trumps a rule every now & then, but I think nowadays I'd do it differently.

Because it requires a party of 4 to take advantage of the coupon you can legitimately deduct the price you paid for the "coupon" from your portion of the final bill after everyone in the group takes advantage of the $25 discount in the price. In other words, you have been generous to your friends because you found the discount and allowed them to join in your largesse. However, without them, you could not use this coupon...this is indeed not a gift certificate. It is a promotion for the restaurant to get more business. It would be very tacky of you to use the coupon value to pay your complete share.

Peter: Okay, I went for the jokey answer. Partly because it was a chance to get Dug to spit up, but mostly because your hypothetical wasn't specific enough, and for me to answer you "correctly" required more writing time than I wanted to spend the other day.

I think everyone else here pretty much has it. The difference between a coupon and a gift certificate - and yes, both are "money" of a sort - is that (and there are exceptions, of course) a gift certificate has usually been paid for full value by someone and has no restrictions... and a coupon is usually free and has restrictions.

So a $20 gift certificate is essentially a $20 bill that's only good at a specific place. You can use it by yourself. But a $20 coupon usually has a restriction - only good on checks of $50 or more, for example. In my example, yes, you could still go there by yourself and spend the $50, but if you go with a group, you are in essence using them to get "your" money.

Not that you couldn't set that up beforehand. Clearly, communication is key here. But it feels tacky to me, too. With a dollar value coupon that you bought, I'd see nothing wrong with splitting the cost of it, however. Though for me, personally, it would have to have cost me a lot to be worth doing. I wouldn't bother over a few bucks. In fact, I might even be embarrassed asking four other people for $1. Again, that's me.

Or, yes, you could go David's route and just be the guy who takes charge of the check and do your thing with no one else the wiser. I won't say that option didn't immediately occur to me when I first read your post. In fact, your first question is the tricky one, as it's easy to see a $20... piece of paper as $20 in your pocket. But taking a cue from your subject heading, I don't think Miss Manners would be concerned about what was technically "correct" as much as she would be about what was socially "correct"... what's the "polite" thing to do, if you will. And sharing it seems like the "obvious" choice to me.

Now, your other question - the %50 off coupon - is a no-brainer. A %50 off coupon should entitle you to %50 off. Any scheme other than sharing it is you trying to get *more* than %50 off... and I think that's fairly shabby.

Um... I wrote "%50" rather than "50%" because, uh... it's the British way of writing it. Yeah, that's it.

I would also like to point out that gift certificates are just what their name implies, a gift. The person who gave it to you wanted *you* to have it. You might volunteer to share it with friends, but there's no social obligation to do so, imo.

Glad that $250000 isn't burning a hole in your pocket. Did you bother to pick up the tip?

None of the dining certificates have been used yet. And the question was at least as much philosophical as it was practical.

Mentioning the $250K is the equivalent of playing the race card in this conversation: obvious, attention-grabbing, and utterly irrelevant to the issue at hand.

In both cases, I'd chose "c" other. Maybe. I'd look at the expiration date and if it is far enough in the future, then I would pay my normal share and use the coupon later.

If you take away my option and say the coupon expires tomorrow, then I would likely split it with everybody else. As I am currently looking for work, I might indulge in the cheaper/thrifty behavior and apply the coupon only for myself. In any event, I would pay enough cash for the tip portion (coupons don't apply to tips).

Can anyone post here?

Your current financial state it definitely a consideration. If you are a starving college student where $20 is a dear amount of money and all your companions are the same then I think its "a" and "b". But if you are of established financial means then its "b" and "b".

I think you're forgetting the "price" of companionship and hospitality. You went out to eat with these people because assumedly they would enhance your dining experience. Your dinner was better for having dined with them. As such you are indebted to the group. If at the end you get your meal for free and they must pay, then you've discounted their contribution. They have to pay for the pleasure of your company while they are worthless.

This is only in the most general of cases. It is easy to construct situation where "a" and "a" are appropriate. For example, some people are cheap and would respect and appreciate the coupon. In such a group paying with the coupon enhances the group experience.

I am personally of the opinion that it all evens out in the end and usually go with "b" and "b".

Today I went to Tuesday Morning with a 40% off coupon for pool supplies. I chose a $6.00 float. A woman there was looking at a $30.00 inflatable pool. I offered her the coupon for the amount I would have saved on my float. She was so thankful for the coupon that she paid for my float. When you are nice to other people, you may get some unexpected benefits.

I have also used buy one/get one free coupons from the Entertainment book. My friend and I would pay half. I think it would be gauche to have my friend pay for her meal and tell the server that I have a coupon so my meal should be free.

I choose

1) a
2) c

In case #2, the total cost of the meal to your group is $60 (the discounted price of $50, plus the $10 you paid for the coupon). So you should each pay $15 ($60 divided by 4). Your three companions contribute $15 cash, while you contribute $5 cash plus the coupon.

Oops, I meant 2) b. If the coupon came to you for free, then "selling" it to your friends is rude; you should contribute it at your cost (zero). If the coupon cost more, then you should contribute it at your cost, rather than trying to make a profit.

I've been thinking this over, and I'm pretty sure that the bellboy gets $5 because the business men are each really charged $28.6666, so the extra $1 is a ruse.

Great! Dug, that's the perfect capper.

This may be going back a bit far, but I have to point out that davidme's claim that "Socially, 'manner-wise', any type of coupon is taboo, especially at a nice restaurant" is completely out of thin air. No reputable etiquette expert makes that claim, and obviously the restaurants don't think so either, or they wouldn't issue the coupons.

First case, I'd throw in the $20 coupon and pay $5 cash. Second case, I'd throw in the $50 coupon and let everybody else share the extra $25 (so, $16.67).

I mean, what are you going to do, ask each of them for $8.33? And make one of them pay $8.34 so you're not out a penny? Unthinkable!

BTW I found my way here from Orkut's "The Game" Community when Peter posted his comments about the most recent game in which we both played - he's on Briny Deep, and I'm on Mystic Fish.

So, what if you're at a restaurant with a friend, and you both have coupons, but hers expires first and she tells you she'll use hers because of the expiration date?